The reply, complete with documentation, because she's wonderful:
"The article Kerttu wrote on Finnish names back in the 1990's (available on the net at <http://heraldry.sca.org/names/finnishnamesarticle.htm>) has several examples of a byname constructed just by adding the father's either given or byname in the genitive or less frequently as a derived adjective:
These seem to be mainly from court records; tax records tend to have names normalised to Swedish standards of the time but there's at least one case of Larss Larss Redsuen from 1643–46 at <https://kaino.kotus.fi/www/verkkojulkaisut/julk20/larsroos.php?f=folio121-122&n=larss>
So, I'd suggest Kareina Talven as the option that uses the most frequently attested pattern; Kareina Talvinen (or the Swedish Kareina Talvis) would also be possible. Also, it's widely agreed (see e.g. Marje Joalaid, Balto-Finnic Personal Name Systems, in the Proceedings of the 25th International Congress of Onomastic Sciences, Glasgow, 25–29 August 2014. Vol. 3. p. 123–130) that Finnish (and Finnic in general) colloquial name constructions have the byname before the given name (so Talven Kareina), but the surviving documents typically have the word order the other way.
I haven't been able to find a gender-neutral Finnish title for any of the royal peerages."
Now to let my subconscious dwell on the pros and cons of Talventytär vs Talven vs Talvinen...
I love long names, and unusual letters, which is a point in favour of leaving it as it is.
Talvinen is a pretty shape word, I like the i, and miss it from my first attempt to register the name, Talvi Tytär, which is bad grammar. But y's are nice too, it is a shame there isn't a variation that has both an i and a y, but I suppose that is greedy.
I suspect that Talven is a little to short for my taste, in addition to lacking both an i and a y. So, of course it is the one she sees as the most likely option. I rarely want to do what is considered normal, though in this case the reaction has nothing to do with it being "normal"...
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Date: 2024-09-20 05:16 pm (UTC)"The article Kerttu wrote on Finnish names back in the 1990's (available on the net at <http://heraldry.sca.org/names/finnishnamesarticle.htm>) has several examples of a byname constructed just by adding the father's either given or byname in the genitive or less frequently as a derived adjective:
Biiörn Karhun 1563, Oluff Janotun 1563, Koko Jvnnv 1455, kösti arnikinj 1478, Laso Bengtin 1563, Ihanus Mondoneuvonen 1563
These seem to be mainly from court records; tax records tend to have names normalised to Swedish standards of the time but there's at least one case of Larss Larss Redsuen from 1643–46 at <https://kaino.kotus.fi/www/verkkojulkaisut/julk20/larsroos.php?f=folio121-122&n=larss>
So, I'd suggest Kareina Talven as the option that uses the most frequently attested pattern; Kareina Talvinen (or the Swedish Kareina Talvis) would also be possible. Also, it's widely agreed (see e.g. Marje Joalaid, Balto-Finnic Personal Name Systems, in the Proceedings of the 25th International Congress of Onomastic Sciences, Glasgow, 25–29 August 2014. Vol. 3. p. 123–130) that Finnish (and Finnic in general) colloquial name constructions have the byname before the given name (so Talven Kareina), but the surviving documents typically have the word order the other way.
I haven't been able to find a gender-neutral Finnish title for any of the royal peerages."
Now to let my subconscious dwell on the pros and cons of Talventytär vs Talven vs Talvinen...
I love long names, and unusual letters, which is a point in favour of leaving it as it is.
Talvinen is a pretty shape word, I like the i, and miss it from my first attempt to register the name, Talvi Tytär, which is bad grammar. But y's are nice too, it is a shame there isn't a variation that has both an i and a y, but I suppose that is greedy.
I suspect that Talven is a little to short for my taste, in addition to lacking both an i and a y. So, of course it is the one she sees as the most likely option. I rarely want to do what is considered normal, though in this case the reaction has nothing to do with it being "normal"...